Joyce Boghosian and Shealah Craighead Transcript: April 4, 2025

Kevin Johnson/NPF (00:00:00):

The session is on visual storytelling if you haven’t figured it out yet. And the reason I wanted to do this is because sadly, as reporters, we just don’t think visually when we prepare to present our work. And I say sadly because images, as these two photographers know, carry a sense of place and emotion that often words just can’t do justice to. And at the White House, some of the most moving images are produced by a cadre of photographers who are working behind the scenes with a great all access pass, but often who are not sort of front in the way that we are. So I’m delighted to introduce Shayla Craighead, who is a former White House photographer for two presidential administrations and served as director of the White House Photography Department and chief photographer to President Trump during his first term. She’s the second woman in history to serve in that role. Joyce, who have you met, worked or her work has crossed for administrations, is that right? I think so.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:01:19):

I think the numbers higher.

Kevin Johnson/NPF (00:01:21):

You think so? I also

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:01:23):

Covered Clinton as a news photographer,

Kevin Johnson/NPF (00:01:25):

As a news photographer, as an official White House photographer. Work was with the HW Bush

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:01:33):

Administration. I was an assistant, I was young. I wasn’t an official photographer until George Bush,

Kevin Johnson/NPF (00:01:39):

43 43 and Barack Obama.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:01:44):

I carried into Barack Obama, Obama for a few months, and then I came back and worked with Shay

Kevin Johnson/NPF (00:01:50):

And then yes, and Donald Trump, her mentor and her father, Harry was a decorated photographer for the Washington Post for decades. So I will turn it over to Joyce to start it off. And as always, raise your hand when you have a question.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:02:07):

Okay. So I mean, one unique experience I had over, like I said, I started at the White House in 1988. I was 20. I was an intern during the last three months of President Reagan’s administration. And this actually is the first time I was in the Oval Office for a transition. So I’ve been in the Oval Office over, gosh, maybe three or four transitions of documenting. And it’s just by chance, I mean the stars align. I feel like so many things in Washington or in our careers just happen because right place at the right time, you meet the right person or the right opportunity opened up. So these are kind of an interesting look at the Oval Office that people don’t usually get to see. And this is on January 20th in 1988. This is when 89, I’m sorry. This is actually during the inauguration ceremonies when Clinton is being sworn in, we could actually hear him being sworn in outside on the loudspeakers as they carried through DC hear.

(00:03:13):

They’re building the resolute desk for Clinton to use. As you see, they’re just preparing it for the incoming president, the Oval Office. The residence has about two to three hours to get the White House ready for the incoming president. This is a day when Obama came to the White House for the first time with Mrs. Obama just soon after he won. This will give you an idea of the kind of images that we have. Our daily schedule at the White House every day is different, very interesting and very historic. This is when Laura Bush invited Mrs. Obama up to the private residence and I had to photograph their meeting. And it’s a little tense when you come off of an election, right? Everyone’s saying it’s a little negative at times. And although I know they’re all friends behind closed doors, but I went and I shot one click and Mrs. Bush is like, thank you, we’re good. I’m like, oh shoot. I hope that turned out. Unfortunately it did. And this picture, for instance, the White House photographers might take a picture in a private setting like this and they may decide to make a news release and it did get a lot. This picture did get a lot of play because of the access really. This was in the evening when the Obamas took a tour of the private residence for the first time and met the Butler Ramsey.

(00:04:48):

This is on January 20th. And again in the Oval Office here, they’re switching the paintings, the decorations, and all this goes to a warehouse in, I think in Maryland somewhere undisclosed, undisclosed location, classified information. I did have to go once with Laura Bush. She was going to look for something and there’s FDRs rocking chair or Kennedy’s chair. It’s a treasure. Everything’s a treasure in there. But actually Presidents will bring back rugs that were used by past presidents. I think Biden just used, oh, I think it was Clinton’s. But so they can choose to use old rugs. They don’t take it with them to the libraries. You may have gone to a presidential library if you ever do, they have a replica of the Oval Office. That’s not the original. The original is here in Washington and in storage or else in the White House. This is of course another transition. This is January 20th, 2021. He’s getting on the helicopter and 10 minutes later they’re changing. They’re flipping the oval.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:06:03):

On the day that Trump was departing from the helicopter, Joyce and I were the two photographers. I signed to the departure and out of our photography team, I had moved position the other photographers to be at Andrews and then on Air Force One, and when Joyce took the position of just right outside on the south lawn, right outside of the door, and I took the position all the way down on the other side of the South lawn so that I could have the White House in the background of the helicopter. And Joyce has this really awesome shot of the red carpet and the President and Mrs. Trump walking out. By the time I made it back up to the Oval Office, Joyce was already in her prime element and that they had already, everything was completely switched,

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:06:49):

Which is so here there, good point. And also when you are covering the White House, the photographers, we coordinate, and I have to say it’s always been a pleasure working with Shay because it’s like we read each other and we can work a room where we’re not in each other’s shots. And so it’s always been, that’s like there’s a chemistry and a formula I feel like. So again, this is in the oval. They’re rolling out the rug for Biden, and that’s basically a transition. Like I said, they flip the day, they flip the oval in just a few hours. You mentioned your grandfather. So my father was a Washington Post photographer. He started in 1959. He passed away in 94, still working. I mean he was in the Oval Office a day before he died covering President Clinton’s address to the nation. Actually, he actually, I think didn’t cover that night.

(00:07:50):

He let Bill O’Leary go and cover it because he hadn’t been in the oval as much as my dad had. So he’s like, bill, you take this one. But nevertheless, he was working till the last day. So this photo is a very special photo to me. I always loved this picture. I didn’t know the story behind it, and I’ll get back to this later, but this will show you some of my father’s images for the Washington Post. And these are his award-winning photos. He had a very great humor about his photography. This is great. This is right up the street from our house, and this was a practice for the fire department and this house. Now there’s a police department up there, but this won also first prize in the White House News Photographers Association. But yeah, my dad just said, let’s get a nice picture of you all.

(00:08:47):

But it made a really funny picture. This was fun. And something I’ll get back to later is I’ve been looking into my father’s work that now as an adult, as an older adult, I am very interested in what he did, especially having worked at the White House. I knew he covered Nixon and Eisenhower. I’m like, well, where are those pictures? And so I reached out to the Nixon Library because I knew I had heard my father tell this story of photographing Eisenhower in the hospital at Walter Reed before he died. This is a few weeks before he died in 69, I think. And they brought in a pool of photographers, and it was very cold outside. It was February, I think, and my dad’s camera lens fogged up and Eisenhower noticed it and he said, let this guy stay in a few more seconds. And so my dad got this nice picture and actually the White House, I’m sorry, the library had it on file and they gave it to me.

(00:09:46):

And again, these are my father’s pictures and some of his humor. Do you all know Dolly Parton? Right. And I grew up with these pictures. I grew up with White House photos on the kitchen table. Dad would print them, leave them on the table for us in the morning to take to school to show our social studies teachers or just to see what he did the night before. This is the night that the former presidents gathered at the White House to go to Sadat’s funeral in Egypt. Sadat had been assassinated, the president of Egypt. And so last minute the former presidents came and they were on a plane to Egypt for the funeral. Reagan didn’t go because he had just recovered from his assassination attempt. This photo actually won the World press photo for portraiture. But this was a really great accomplishment of my dad meeting Presidents, Truman, Eisenhower Johnson.

(00:10:46):

There’s that picture. Nixon, my grandfather meeting President Ford blessing him. So these are things that I grew up with. And here’s Johnson. So Fred Maroon is a photographer. He passed away, but he was very accomplished photographer here in Washington, architectural and presidential photographer. He was doing a portrait of Johnson and had my dad’s help with lights and sit in for Johnson while Johnson just worked in the background there. And so my dad got this picture. He came from Beirut in 1959, so this is not too many years later. He sent it back to Beirut and it was on the front page of a Lebanese newspaper saying Only five years in America. And Harry Nal Chian already occupies a seat of the president of the United States. So again, this is, Hey, I’m also, my heritage is Armenian. You mentioned where you come from other places. My parents came from Lebanon, but we are Armenian descent.

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And he always found a way to help put Armenians on the page in the media. That was a National Geographic story on the Proud Armenians in 1978, which was an amazing thing for Armenians because we didn’t have the website. Nobody knew who Armenians were. My daughter even said in school someone thought it was a salad dressing. So he was very proud of this. This is my first visit to the White House in 1969. And actually I just found out that this bunny is the first official White House Easter Bunny. I didn’t know that until someone told me when they saw it, but that is a very scary bunny. That’s my mom. And the fun thing is that booth is still there. It’s been renovated. The lamp is still there. So I would love to recreate this, but I don’t think my mom’s 92, I don’t know if I can get her there.

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President Reagan came to my high school in 1986. I was a senior in high school yearbook photographer. This was like the bomb, right? That’s such an outdated word probably. But I was so excited. Those are all my high school classmates, and I really caught the bug this day. And I remember my dad coming by the post taking my film and I’m like, dad, I want to do this. So I ended up getting an internship at the White House, thanks to my dad and to the photo office. I was 20. But I helped with covering events. I had some skill of photography, and I learned from the photographers at the White House and also just people at my father. That’s Queen Elizabeth. This is a state arrival during 41. So when Reagan left the White House, Bush won. I then was hired as an assistant to his photographer, and this will give you an idea of some of the history. I saw Gorbachev, princess Diana. Then after my four years there, I went to a FPA jean’s, friends press wire service. I was a news photographer at the Washington Bureau. I was a stringer for two years. And then I was hired as staff and I love doing the feature photography. I covered the White House. That was before the Monica Lewinsky. This is after the Monica Lewinsky.

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And then I went to the Bush White House. I left a FP because I had two kids and I was called to come in and fill in for Barbara, Laura Bush’s photographer who was going on maternity leave. But I ended up covering a good amount of the president, and that’s when I met Shea. She then was Laura Bush’s photographer, and I was helping with support the president’s photographer. Here’s George Bush cycling. This gives you some idea of we are official photographers. We’re also doing a little bit of family photography here. This was kind of neat to see a father and son goofing off and sometimes you’re a dog photographer. That’s the Easter egg roll and the funeral of Ronald Reagan. This is the funeral procession. This is the laying in state of George Herbert Walker Bush. I worked with Mrs. Obama. As I said, I carried on over into the Obama administration and I photographed her for a few months before I left.

(00:15:24):

I had three kids at that point. Then I went back and worked with Shay. This was a very interesting and unique experience. I mean, every day is like, did I just see that happen? And you did, and it’s really an honor. Yeah. This day the Clemson team was coming to the White House and the government was shut down. So President Trump’s like just let’s do, I think it was $5,000 worth of fast food. They ate every piece. They ate every bit of it up. There’s Shea, this is address to the nation. I think this is the day he shut down the government. I mean everything because of Covid. The Covid shutdown down.

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And oh, this was really interesting. So this is when George W. Bush is president on this day at this time, and I was one of his official photographers. He invited Obama to meet the former presidents, have lunch with them two weeks before he was inaugurated. So this was amazing seeing former presidents just walking around the colon aid. And this was a more historic, I think, photo that I was present for at this moment. Bill Plant with CBS asked Obama what he learned from the mistakes of the men standing next to him. I was like, okay, could you just be a little nicer? But I guess that’s the job of the press sometimes, right? But this was really special. And of course I connected with my dad’s picture for me also just working at the White House. It’s not about only the president, it’s about the people that make that place work.

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And you have the National Park Service. It is a national park. This is here. They’re bringing in a 16 foot tree for Christmas. He was Reagan’s pastry chef. This is 1991. Hans was his name. You have Rolon who actually recently passed away. And the pastry chef Bill, a pastry chef for the butches. And Susie, and then you have the butler. He retired after, gosh, almost 40 years. The florist, the electricians. You have amazing people there that are doing their best to make it the top. An amazing place. Getting back to the picture. And how are we doing on time? I think I can do five more minutes. Okay, I’ll try to do five more minutes. So I was speaking somewhere a couple years ago and it was actually, it was a virtual thing because we were still coming out of Covid. And a woman in the audience saw this picture in my presentation and she said in the audience, she’s in this picture and this is in dc.

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And I was like, you’re kidding. I want to know about this picture. So she invited me to her house about a week later. It was Betsy. And she invited four other people in that, five other people in that picture, two people called in. One from San Diego, one from Pennsylvania on Zoom. So we were like seven people from that original photo. And they had never met my father. My, apparently they had the AP Day book just saying, there’s this group having breakfast on the mall at dawn, or a group of friends from Georgetown, but actually they didn’t live in Georgetown. And so the editor must have said, Harry, go take a look at this and see what it looks like. See if it makes a picture, right? Because that’s what we do. The photographers, your editor will say, this sounds like it might make a nice photo.

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Go take a look. And so he did take a look and he did a really nice picture. The Washington Star was actually there, but shot it from the other direction, but they didn’t get as much play. So they had photo albums. They brought out the dress that they wore these two people. This woman is in Pennsylvania, she’s showing the dress. And then they showed me their original photos from the breakfast. They were just a group of friends that wanted to give their one friend Janet. It was her birthday. And they did these outrageous fun things like they’re your age, right? They’re in their twenties starting their career out. And they loved doing over the top birthday parties for each other. And Ms. Janet had just been diagnosed with breast cancer. They really wanted to do something special. They were in tuxedos. They had an invitation. Later. I am showing you this because this picture then was advertised in 96 with these photos. Look, you’ve got Neil Armstrong Kennedy. I mean this picture went viral when it was shot. And it was one of the top selling images. They had clippings. I mean, these are so bad, I have to go find the originals. But the Pittsburgh press, the Sarasota Herald Tribune, even Montreal, no ham and eggs at this breakfast. So it really made a nice story. This is the original paper, 1974. It made the front page of the style section.

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And so the Washington Post, I told them about it. I pitched the story to Theresa Vargas who’s here with the Post. Yeah. So I don’t know if you know Theresa. Yeah. And Marissa Lang wrote the article. Anyways, Dudley Brooks in the photo office said, you’ve got to recreate this. And so we did. They agreed. At first they were like, no, we’re not going to do it. But they agreed. And I went and I rented chairs and tables and my kids set this up and they came and they brought their dresses. She came from Pennsylvania, the butler, I’m sorry, the Matre D for Afer, the caterer. I found his two kids. I had a letter that he had sent them saying it was the most amazing event he had ever worked. Afer was the top caterer in Washington for many years. So they came and they brought some pictures of their dad getting ready. Those are oysters. It was a really unique thing. So this is the recreation here. The Mare D’s son is meeting the son of one of the women that was originally at the breakfast. These people grew up with this picture in their house. And when I talked to the son of the server, he started crying. He’s in his seventies. He’s like, I’ve grown up with this picture my whole life. I didn’t know what the story was.

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So they had this little, we did this breakfast and the park service at first wasn’t that into it, but then they let us, gave us the permit. There’s that with duck. And then all the comments were amazing. And one person even wrote, I bought this picture at a yard sale years ago, and now I know what it was. I mean, isn’t that crazy? It made the front page of the Washington Post in September. The story turned out to be one of the top five stories of the year. Marissa Lang did an amazing job. But my point actually to you is photos are very powerful. And even 50 years later, it is making people weep. People commented how someone wrote in the comment like, my pajamas all wet, I’m not crying, am I? And then actually I heard anyways, a lot of people were really moved, but all I could say is a good thing for you all to remember is that really the photo can enhance what you’re writing. But also Marissa Lang really enhanced the photo. So she did an amazing job. I couldn’t believe how she presented the story, but she did an amazing job. So that’s my presentation. I hope it wasn’t too long.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:23:53):

So I’ll just kind of start. The photography for me came from a very young age, I guess. But as I was going through the images, I started to think about storytelling in my life and how it can relate to you guys. And so when I looked back on my childhood, I remember taking, we always had cameras, we had a variety of cameras, we had the one tens, we had a 35 millimeter. And I would take photos and then I would glue them into paper and I would write up these random stories and my mom has them in her chest. And when you go back and I encourage you to go back into your lives and think about what were you doing as young kids, how was storytelling starting to influence you? So this is me at three and let’s see, lemme go back here. I’ll let you tell me.

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Give me a thumbs up when you’re ready. And it became very clear to me in my journey of photography that I was always kind of destined to take photos or tell stories or in some capacity. But what the point of that is, it’s fun to see how that unfolds for each of you in your life uniquely. My family grew up, I grew up in Indiana, and then we moved to Connecticut and through a series of events, my dad opened up a photo lab and that was my first job at $3 and 48 cents an hour before taxes at 12 years old. And that’s kind of how I learned the lay of the land with photography. I learned I didn’t like slide film E six because it was too concrete and it didn’t allow any longitude latitude. I learned that I liked negative black and white in color film because it gave me a little bit more room to play, but I didn’t like being in the dark room.

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So that’s still true today. Okay, should I go back? Can we go back to the first one now? Okay, the left. Got it. So my mom took this Kathy, and we learned later how true it would be. So I was looking at a photo and I thought, how did I go here at age three with a diaper butt holding a camera to here at age 40 running back from the side of North Korea to the South Korea in the DMZ zone? And I thought literally 40 years later, what is up with that? So here I am. This is what I learned from this experience. Oops, where’s that? So telling a story is a little bit trickier perhaps with photos than words because you get sometimes one chance, right? In this case, what we were told was he’s going to step over the center line, they’re going to shake hands, turn and see the press, shake hands, and then come back over the center line.

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So this is the line for the DMZ, right? We have South Korea, North Korea. And so that’s the breaking you get. I’m standing on my stool, which is another story. I’m standing on the stool in the center there above. And then next to me is the videographer from the White House. And below me is my North Korean counterpart photographer. This happens and I’m seeing them walk, I’m seeing them, they have a brief conversation. This is their third meeting ps. And then he starts walking over. And you can see that Kim is saying, Hey, if you keep going, you’ll be the president who steps over into North Korea the furthest. And I mean, this guy likes a good challenge, so why not? So here we go. I see him go through my lens and I’m standing there going, oh my gosh. And he’s out of my lens. Make a split second to decide which way you’re going.

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So for me, what’s the story? The story is about the photo of him on the other side, which is a little bit out of sync. But anyway, it’s the photo of him, president Trump and Kim Jong-un walking all the way on the other side of the border. And so I had to make a split to second decision to say what would tell this story? And the story is how far he’s walking into North Korea. So I jumped off my stool and I already see my counterpart on the other side. And typically a counterpart would say, Hey, let’s go. But I recognize that in North Korea they do things a little differently, mainly because I don’t think they’re aware, right? We have the gift of awareness of how other countries work, of how our neighbors work, of how other publications work. And so I ran across the border and got in line with him only to be jockeying for that position, and he was none too pleased with me being there.

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So we did a little elbow off, I got my shot, and then we’re running back and trying, here’s my counterpart, and I’m trying to run ahead in order to get in front of these guys to get them. Now the photo of them walking back. Now there’s a whole press pool of international press, which are none too pleased with a photographer running in their view. And fair enough, because here’s the thing, everybody has a job to do. You have a story to tell. The White House photographers and team have a story to tell. So I always try to be in my style as unobtrusive as possible so that everybody could do their job. It’s not about me, it’s about history, it’s about the president, it’s about the team on the ground, and it’s about making sure that I am the least obtrusive person. I just need to get my shots and get out.

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So I ran back, dove on the ground, and then they start walking through. So I’ll back up in college. So this was my dad and his scout, and that was the photo my mom took. That kind of sealed the deal for me. Once I got of age to understand what was going on, and my dad opens up a photo lab, I start to learn about photography. It wasn’t until college that I was studying, alright? So truth is I went to three colleges and I had four different majors. So the zigzag path is different for everybody. There’s no one way to do it. And on my senior year in college of my second college, my mom said, you made me want to take a look at your career path because your grades are suspect. And she was right. I was getting all A’s in a couple of B’s in my photography and art classes and a hundred percent failing in all my business classes.

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I mean proud F student right here. So I said, fair enough. I looked around and I thought photography, I can do this. I called some colleges. I ended up at the Art Institute of Boston, which is now merged with Leslie University, and felt very strongly once I got there that I wanted to create a portfolio that would be able to be utilized. I liked fine art, but I didn’t quite get it. How do you use that in the real world? I liked sports photography, but I didn’t know anything about it. I knew war photography looked really sexy, but I also valued my life. And so that wasn’t going to be me. I called up the Boston Globe and I said, hi, I am new in town. I had to start back in my sophomore year, I missed all my art classes. And I said, I am curious about being a photojournalist.

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I dunno what you do, but it looks really cool on the outside. Can I shadow one of your photographers for a day? And I got ahold of Jim Wilson on a Wednesday, and Jim, who’s the deputy director of the photo department said, yeah, come on in on Saturday. So I came in on Saturday and I met up with Evan Richmond and we covered everything. We did a fire, we did photography of a food, of a nun, of a whoever else, and it was the best day of my life. And kind of like Joyce, I knew in that moment this was for me. I didn’t know how and I didn’t know what, but I loved that Evan was able to do five different things in an eight hour job and work with a reporter. And I thought that was so cool to have that tandem back and forth communication and creativity to be able to work with a teammate.

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So after that, I did everything I could to train myself to get experience. I mean, I barely made it to class. I was going to Boston College and Harvard. I was photographing sports photography when I could. I rode around with any photographer at the Boston Globe that would let me sit in their front seat. And then in the meantime, I was back over at BC taking photos, which eventually worked out. And I would go in on Sundays and sit with the photo editor because I wanted to know how the photo editor and the photographer communicate, how does the photographer know what you’re looking for? Because it seemed like the photographers were just on their own. And I thought that was a really cool concept of how the reporter would be able to say, here’s what I’m writing about. And the photographer would then take that context and go, okay, here’s the photo I’m seeing and would that work?

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And so eventually I was hanging around long enough and the freelancer for the sports assignment that the Boston College called out. And I happened to be standing there when the photo editors were talking about needing a photographer. And I said, I can do this all day long. I had no idea what I was doing. And they said, you got it? And I signed the contract and I thought, oh my gosh. And they gave me this brick of film and said, have at it. And I’m super poor student. I mean always behind on rent and also a DD. So I can’t do math or finances. I was a hot mess in college, but I could take a photo and that’s what I figured out. And I was dedicated and I was driven. I never turned down a job opportunity. I never said no, it didn’t matter what it was.

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Get a coffee, take a photo of a mailbox, count me in for all of it. I just wanted to learn because I was so curious about how to tell a story. So there was the puck, and I thought this was the greatest Pulitzer Prize winning sports photo ever, but obviously not. And then going to an art college, I learned the art of movement in motion because I was literally the only person in my class that was doing any kind of portfolio that could be utilized in media. And so I started incorporating what I saw with my colleagues, which was a lot of movement, a lot of interpretation and conceptualism. And so I try to make that my style as well. And as you guys know, in photojournalism, you have to bank the shot and then you can get really creative on the inside. So I tried my best and I had some wonderful mentors along the way, and I can’t emphasize that enough, who you know, never know when that might come into play.

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And I had a friend lend me a 400 millimeter lens. I had Jim Wilson on my team saying, here’s an assignment. And eventually I called up a, and this was kind of a boring shot for the Boston Globe, but what I loved was the challenge of going into somebody’s dorm and saying, how do you make a photo of this? Right? And eventually I got to the point where our senior thesis was coming up and our show, our senior show was coming up and I was the only one that I thought could walk out of our class with a portrait and a portfolio to show news journalism style. It had a little of everything. It had portraiture, it had sports and movement, it had documentary style. I could walk into a situation and use a flash. So that was the kind of thing at that time where I was really learning how to navigate.

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Also, we were transitioning from film to digital. So that was kind of another new situation the industry was going through. This is Giselle Martinez. She was a 12-year-old boxer and a have role mass, and she was female. And at the time, in that location, that was not a big deal. I mean, that was a big deal because there was not a lot women or girls for that matter in sports. So I started getting these assignments for the Boston Globe, and at some point along the way, I called up Associated Press and I said, Hey. And the photo editor was a guy by the name of a Dan Hansen. And so Dan said, this is in Boston. And I said, Hey, can I, I’ve been published with the Boston Globe doing some hustling with them. Could I start picking up freelance jobs with you all? And he said, yeah, but you have to go out and find one of our photographers and you have to shadow them for a couple of times so that you know how we work.

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And I said, cool. So that night I went to Boston College and I sat on the basketball line and I said, I scanned. And I was looking for the AP photographer who turned out to be a very tall black gentleman by the name of Lawrence Jackson. So Lawrence and I go all the way back to, it was like early two thousands. And so I walked up and I said, hi, are you with the ap? And he said, I am. And I said, hi, I’m Shay. I will be riding with you for the next few days. And he had no idea what was going on. And then we became the dearest friends. So short story along about Lawrence’s life, he gets promoted from Boston Bureau to DC AP Bureau, and that’s a nice improvement. It’s a promotion. He’s now covering the White House. And I pulled this up because this is one of the publications for the Boston Globe that was printed and they wanted to do an out and about around new construction.

(00:37:44):

I thought this was the lamest assignment, but I was super stoked about it. There was nothing creativity about it in my opinion. But when you look to see what the design team does and the reporter does and how it all pops up, I kind of walked away from that going, that was a really nice challenge of an assignment for me. And this was Vin Baker and he turns it and he was with the Boston Celtics, and it turns out he’s from my hometown in Connecticut. So I again was able to utilize some connections and go home, see my parents, and do a photo shoot with Vin Baker. So then we fast forward and Lawrence, I come to visit him in DC and he shows me around and I said, Hey, if you know of anybody, I think I’m ready to move out of Boston, and I’m looking to move to New York, a little big DC seems like a good size city.

(00:38:38):

I don’t know anything about it. And he said, sure, I’ll keep my ears open. And two weeks later, the photo editor in the Bush administration, Bush 43 said, Hey, we’re looking for a staff assistant. And that’s how I got the interview. It was crazy. So again, it goes back to networking completely random, but also being able to pivot, hear your instincts and go for it, taking every opportunity that you possibly can. You can always say no later, but you can’t say no later if you’ve already said no. So I interviewed for that position and I started as an interviewing with that position for a staff assistant making about 15,000 a year. I ended up with a photo editing position for the Vice President’s office making 30,000 a year plus insurance. So I thought I was living large. And so I took the job and that got me in the door.

(00:39:31):

And again, I didn’t know anything about politics. My dad had to give me a background on who’s the president, what everybody does, secretary of State, the whole shebang. I learned quick. So in four months into it, Mrs. Bush’s photographer who had been on maternity leave that Joyce had been covering for, decided to tap out. And it’s a very grueling job. You’re on somebody else’s schedule for your entire time that you’re there. It’s really hard to set boundaries on personal life, time off and all that kind of stuff. So Susan tapped out and a position became open, I popped my portfolio in and I got the job. I had no idea what I was walking into, and I was really surprised that I got the job. But once you’re in, you’re in. So another good lesson there is to again, take the opportunities, get your foot in the door, even if it’s not the job that you were thinking you originally wanted.

(00:40:28):

So with Mrs. Bush, we traveled, I think by the time I was done, so this was now 2005 to 2009, I logged in over 50 countries with Mrs. Bush. We went to Africa, we went to India. Her initiatives were education, her literacy, women’s studies, her dogs, sorry, I think that goes down a little bit further. Anyway, to Joyce’s point, she loves her pets. And sometimes you’re a pet photographer, sometimes you’re an event photographer, sometimes you are, we’re missing Dale. Sometimes you’re wedding photographer, sometimes you are. Thank you. Sometimes you’re a little bit of a sports photographer. So all of the skills that I learned kind of getting here while my stepping stones were now in my toolbox and I pulled from areas of my life, I had no idea that would come to fruition later. So I kind of offered that to you as what experience if you had, that might play into your future.

(00:41:40):

And you don’t know how that skill will come, but it’s in your toolbox, so you can pull it out whenever you need it. We went to Afghanistan. This is Mrs. Bush’s second trip to Afghanistan, and this is the first female mayor in Afghanistan. And what I thought was, and we went to an outpost, and this is a Kiwi soldier, and then she met with women who were local to a village out in Baan province. So we helicoptered out and were looking at the most beautiful scenery and the mountains where the Buddha had been bombed out by the Russians and talking about how women can empower themselves and sell goods and support their family sustainably. And then she meets with President Karzai, which I thought was pretty bad ask, is that okay? I mean, she’s a female, she’s the first lady and she’s meeting with a president of the country and holding court.

(00:42:29):

I mean, I had massive respect for her, but every time that she did something like this, it elevated to the next level because, and she was so well respected in this role, it really was a wonderful role model for myself and the women and the people around her. We were in the Middle East quite a bit where we were talking about women’s health that wasn’t talked about. So how do you tell the story in one photo that you’re in the Middle East talking about women’s health literacy in I want’s Korea or Japan, and then her daughter gets married. So now you’re a wedding photographer as well. And that was pretty special.

(00:43:13):

And then as the term was coming to a close, I was asked to join the presidential, the 2008 presidential team. It was John McCain and Sarah Palin against Obama and Biden. And I loved my job. I mean, it was September. I only had a few months left. I adored Mrs. Bush. I wasn’t ready to go anywhere. And Mrs. Bush said, if you haven’t done a campaign, Shayla, then you should go do this and you’ll have a job either way, because if they win, then you have a job, and if they don’t win, you can come back and you can still work with us. And I said, okay. So with her blessing, I was Sarah Palin’s campaign photographer for 58 days from September to election day in November, and I’ll spare you the photos, but there were a couple of publications that ran. I got to know she and her family very well, and I became their family photographer for a time being afterwards, went to Saturday Night Live, she met with Bill Clinton.

(00:44:10):

This is on the airplane with her daughter, I think talking to McCain, I’d have to read the caption here. She’s in Walmart picking up stuff for her newborn. She’s doing speech training here. You can see there’s Rick Perry back there. So it kind of was like, what just happened in my life? You’re kind of like, but then how do you tell the story of 56 days in 10 photos, right? There’s a lot behind the scene. Saturday night Live with her daughter getting ready. Here’s where she’s in a meeting. You see her husband’s off to the side there. She was a female, she was a mother. She was a wife, she’s a candidate. She was the governor. Pretty impressive to be able to document a person in that time of her life. And here’s the back. And then this was after the campaign ended, and she was doing a book tour going rogue, that’s her son there.

(00:45:06):

And as I mentioned, so that led into being a family photographer for the Palins for a small amount of time and being welcomed into their home. So I think one of the things about doing this job is you’re telling a story, but you’re also gaining the trust of the people that you’re working with. And it’s super helpful to be able to figure out how to do that. Early on, you might not. Well, I didn’t always agree with the politics. I didn’t always agree with the perspectives or the path that they were going on, but I recognized for me, that wasn’t my job. My job was to document history as it was unfolding for the campaign is a little bit out of order. I don’t know if you’re able to guide the photos on your end, but if not, that’s cool. So in between the Bush administration and the Trump administration, I was running my own business.

(00:46:05):

I was here in DC and I wanted to do anything but take photos. I wanted to go to cooking school, I wanted to run marathons. I wanted to do anything else. Train cats. I mean, that would’ve made me so happy. But I kept getting jobs from colleagues that I used to work with at the White House who’d then gone from government to private sector. So again, the networking kind of comes into play in areas that I wasn’t expecting because I hadn’t been into that environment before. So I was covering then Joani Ernst, I was her senate, her campaign photographer. She was running for Senate. I did k Bailey Hutchinson, who was running against Perry for governor. Rick Scott was running for governorship for the first time in Florida. So I was his campaign photographer again for 58 days on the road with he and his family and the campaign, and then a couple of other folks along the way.

(00:46:58):

And then the last was Senator Rubio, who was running for his presidential campaign. I was his photographer a little bit while he was senator. And then as he was running for president, I picked up to be his presidential photographer. So again, and that goes back to networking with all those people along the way. And I got a call one day, Rubio had conceded. I was living in the Navy yard and it was a Sunday morning, and Sean Spicer, who are you guys familiar with? Sean Spicer. Okay. So Sean calls and said, and I knew he and his wife Rebecca from the Bush days. And he said, Hey, it’s a Sunday. And he goes, Hey, what are you doing on Friday? The inauguration of the 45th president? We need a photographer for the inauguration. And I thought, well, that can’t be, you can’t just need one.

(00:47:49):

I didn’t quite understand what he was saying. I was like, that can’t be right. And also that’s crazy because you would need a background checks and it’s a whole lot to get on to be able to do this whole lot of background stuff. And I said, sure. Yeah, absolutely. Sounds like a plan. I cleared my week. I had a client on Monday and after that I rescheduled everything. And he calls back on Monday and said, Hey, the photographer that we had slotted to be the chief photographer did not pass vetting. So at 12 noon, could you just assume the role? And I was like, the role of what? And he was the chief photographer. And I was like, sure, I’ll just assume the role at 12 noon. And that’s how that literally happened. It was not more of a conversation that, because he’s like, okay, great, somebody will be in touch, got to go click.

(00:48:35):

And I was like, what just happened? And so it goes back to networking. And so that I closed out my business on Monday night and Tuesday morning, Wednesday I checked in, got my badge, and then the guy who was doing badge photos said, oh, do you always wear turtlenecks to your badge photos? And I was like, well, no, just today because January and cold. And then he showed me, my last photo was the same turtleneck sweater I was wearing, so four years ago for the Bush administration. So I have a style. So I didn’t know President Trump had met him once before with Sarah Palin on one of her book tours. We didn’t. The point is we didn’t know each other. He didn’t know what a photographer was doing with him. He didn’t understand the concept of a White House photographer. Totally understandable. This is your first time in this environment.

(00:49:31):

So there was a lot of education around him to his team. What does a White House photographer do? We document history as it unfolds. We are the visual diarist in tandem with the diarists that are on staff. We work to ensure that the president and the administration have the photos that they need, but also we’re here on behalf of the American people. So thanks for paying your taxes. So about six months, it took me about six months to work my way into his trust. And I started that by working my way into the trust of his teammates, of the people he trusted most. Also new to me, also new to the environment. So that was a little bit of a kind of roll up the sleeves, go back to reminding myself that this is not about me. Everything that I did in the Bush administration is going to be totally different, and I could not rely on that foundation.

(00:50:24):

The only foundation I could rely on was that what I was doing. I knew the architecture and the structure of the place, and I kind of knew who to call in which situation in which office. So I ran with it and I got hired on a month later, I got my first paycheck. So this is in Mar-a-Lago. And the first thing you learn is that kind of like in North Korea, the information you get, forget about it. You just literally have to wear roller skates and go with the flow. Because everything, as Joyce was saying, I was like, did that just happen? And you can hear that, oh see on the schedule at 8:00 AM there’ll be some kind of a meeting. But by noon the schedule is completely blasted and everything has changed. So we did a lot of watching Fox and Twitter’s feeds to know what our day was going to be about.

(00:51:11):

This is Mar-a-Lago. This is the Syria bombing. This is in a room in Mar-a-Lago. They had to make a skiff out of, and then whoopsie, sorry. Here we are in Switzerland for one of the economic meetings. And this is kind of interesting how close everybody is, and it’s waving high and people, you can see just the draw of energy people have to him. This is also then in the pause because in Switzerland they go to a lot of different meetings. So they’re holding in a hallway so that they can take notes and huddle. This is on a base here in the DC area, and this soldier is a retired military singing. And so president singing the national anthem. And I thought it was wonderful because President Trump wasn’t typically a touchy feely person. So I love that photo. This is one of the millages and his daughter on the south lawn. And I just thought it was a precious kind of moment. We’re going back to what Joyce is saying, it’s that you’re telling the story of the people that are working there. That’s the other thing that you’re doing. You’re not only documenting the president and every movement that that person makes, but you’re documenting the people around them who are also history. This is in the White House. There was briefing, this was in New York at UNGA with the vice president.

(00:52:40):

And the other thing is too, you’re always just trying to figure out how to make a story, how to tell the story of an average photo. I mean, it was tungsten lighting. I like the wood paneling if that was kind of cool. But also he’s just leaning to whisper something. Well, what’s he whispering? I don’t know. But you never know. Is that whisper going to say, Hey, we’re about to hit the nuclear button, or is that like, Hey, you want to get dinner later? You don’t know. So you take the photo just in case. So this one given a lot of order. This is the photo where Nancy Pelosi stood up and walked out, and I did it kind of like in a triptych. So imagine Nancy Pelosi standing up saying whatever she’s saying, and then she leaves with Hoya and Schumer. They all leave.

(00:53:30):

So now you have, again, the story. How do you tell the story? The story is the three empty chairs and then everybody else who has kind of stayed behind. And then the next photo after this would be the photo of them choosing the photo to release, which is a whole nother story. And then sometimes you just take photos for yourself because we’re not going to publish this anywhere. But I enjoyed it. How do you take photos of things that you see every day? How do you tell the story of the same room, of the same scenario, of the same everything and you just kind of choose different angles. You choose reflections on tables, you choose, oh, food on the Air Force one, you have to have your favorite food, Joyce and I on the top of the roof for a state dinner. And I think there are others, but I think we’re also working out of time. So let me conclude that with just saying, Kevin, thank you so much for having

Kevin Johnson/NPF (00:54:33):

Time tonight. Oh, no, no. And I don’t mean to close it down, but I also wanted to make sure we had some time for them to fire away.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:54:40):

Absolutely.

Kevin Johnson/NPF (00:54:41):

So who has a question?

Hailey Bullis | Washington Examiner (00:54:45):

I’m Hailey Bullis with the Washington Examiner telling the story of being in North Korea when he crossed the DMZ line and you were saying you dove. How do you deal with situations like that where it’s like quick thinking, you’re trying to get out of the way, also not damage your equipment, I’m sure just that quick thinking to tell the story and be where you need to be.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:55:08):

It’s such a good question. I don’t know that I have an answer other than I just follow my instincts. After 20, 30 years of doing the job, you just kind of follow your instincts. I don’t think I even had a thought. The only thought I can remember for that scenario is that how am I going to tell this story? And that was to run into North Korea. But I think with, I don’t really care as much about the equipment, I’m pretty tough on my equipment. So I knew that. And then I have this clunky stool, which is so obtrusive, you can hear me coming from Miles. And it was just a matter of putting out of your head, being shouted out by everybody and knowing my only mission and my only goal is to make sure that that man has the photo he needs because at the end of the day, I have to fly home with him and he’s going to say, why didn’t you get that shot? So that was kind of my main driver in making sure I got the shot and just kind of blocking everybody else out until I was down on the ground on the stone. So kind of instincts, following your instincts.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:56:12):

We don’t own the equipment, it’s a government

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:56:15):

Equipment. Oh yeah. That’s the other

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:56:17):

Thing. If you actually watch the footage of Shay and watch it, she is actually very physical to get in there with elbows.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:56:26):

Yeah, you got to sharpen

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:56:27):

To say they were not nice. I mean the North Koreans were a little challenging

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:56:33):

For her. Yeah, that’s a good point. All of our equipment and government purchased. And so therefore, every photo, every image you take is not, is a government property. You can’t delete any images. They’re

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:56:42):

Presidential records.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:56:43):

They’re presidential records. Yeah.

Audrey Decker | Defense One (00:56:49):

Hi. Thank you guys so much for doing this. Audrey Decker with Defense one. I’m curious how, I mean, you both have been doing this for so long, how the role or how photojournalism has changed at all, just with social media and everybody now having iPhones and everybody can snap those pictures. I mean, obviously being in the White House, only certain people are allowed to be in the positions that you guys have been in. But how just broadly you’ve seen photojournalism change, I guess?

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:57:14):

Great question. Do you want to say, we were even speaking about this earlier, just journalism in general has changed, but yeah, especially with going from film to digital and then social media, we will take a picture and then someone with their phone, we will post it almost before we can get it the card out of our camera. But

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:57:40):

Joyce coined the phrase beat the tweet, and so we could hustle. We’d have to hustle a little bit faster. It comes down to education too. You had to offer education of why you want to use a White House photo instead of a cell phone photo. And in the beginning, everybody had their cell phones in the Oval Office. And you have to, I mean, you can only say it so many times, this isn’t security. This isn’t how you should do it for security reasons until something bad happens. And then everybody goes, oh, okay, yep, no more cell phones. And then you kind of win the game. So it’s the long game you’re going for.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (00:58:15):

But yeah, I think also for photographers, we do more. We edit on the road. You have your laptop and basically you shoot, you are editing while in a motorcade or walking from the car to the airplane. I mean, you’ve got your laptop and you’re working, but it gives us a little bit more responsibility, more control over what photos we want to pick and present for a consideration. Yeah,

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:58:45):

And I think once you gain the trust, then that you will have the same images as Evan Vci or Doug Mills or somebody else. Then they start to dial back a little bit and say, oh, okay, we will wait for Shays. We’ll wait for Joyce’s photos.

Audrey Decker | Defense One (00:59:00):

And then one super, another quick question. I’m just curious. The process of picks what photos are released and who decides that? And were there any discussions from the photographers, oh, this one’s actually better, or the administration wants to release this one because it shows the scene maybe in the way that they want it to be portrayed and how that dynamic works.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (00:59:24):

Yeah, good question too. This is tricky. It’s different with every administration. Typically the way it’s been done in the past is our photo editors will choose the photo and then present ’em to the press office, and then they choose with us. But the Trump administration, it was choose the photos, then they would go to their social media person, which was Dan Scavino, and sometimes directly to the president, we’d give the president a folder of printed out paper prints every day, and he would choose if he liked. And one of the photos I wasn’t able to show was actually the photos of Nancy Pelosi walking out of the room on the president’s desk in the Oval Office, and Kelly and Conway was saying why she liked this photo versus that. So you get everybody’s opinion. I mean, at that point, it’s not about me. I can say. Yeah, I like that one, but it’s kind of like the loudest voice in the room wins.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:00:13):

I mean, there’s definitely a protocol and for any government agency, I think. So it’s not like it’s a little different than a newspaper or a magazine. Yeah, there’s a protocol in the government.

Shrai Popat | PBS NewsHour (01:00:34):

Thanks so much for doing this. That was amazing. I just wanted to ask you both independently, what photographers or photographs you go back to when you’re thinking about composition lighting tricks? And that doesn’t necessarily have to be new photography, but even if it’s sports photography or commercial photography. I’m kind of curious what inspires your work when you were covering the White House?

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:00:57):

Oh,

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:00:57):

That’s a good

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:00:58):

Question. You want to go first?

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:01:00):

I think, and I know Shave, you’ve heard me say this, my father would take me to the art gallery to look at paintings to see how the artist created what he imagined to be an image with the light source and different things going on in the painting. I mean, looking at other people’s work inspires me. I mean, I am not going to copy it, but it definitely gives me ideas. I go through past White House photographer’s images just to see how they covered certain rooms or presidents because I actually really value that history. And I do try to replicate it in some way, but it’s not going to be the same because times are different. The building looks different, the decorations are different. But I do pick up on tips from other photographer’s works.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:01:57):

Yeah, I’d echo that. Definitely. Looking back, when you see a room once, like the Oval Office that’s been photographed so many times from every angle, how do you do it differently? And so I would look back for inspiration from previous White House photographers and in the press pool too, A massive shout out to the press pool, who gets two minutes? Well, now they get a little bit longer, but they would get two minutes and out and have to make a photo that can be pushed out. And so I’d always look to see what they got as well. I think that was really impressive. Then we get a lot more time in the room to really compose a photo. But then I think for me, there was one in particular photo that I absolutely adore, which is President Trump and President Macron of France, and they came to the Mount Vernon and then while they were waiting for the first ladies to use the powder room, they were sitting around a dinner table.

(01:02:49):

It was a double date, so to speak. And it was in the Great room, which is like the last room built in the mansion, the green wallpaper and this beautiful soft light. And the two of them were casually talking.

And I loved it because it was more of a personal photo. It wasn’t just a political photo. They’re not shaking hands and posing. It was more like an intimate conversation. And I asked the curator as we were leaving, who was the last president to dine in here? And he said, president Washington. And I thought, oh, okay. That’s pretty cool. It was a little, anyway, I thought that was really neat. The history that goes along with that was really what stood out for me.

Nicholas Anastácio | National Journal (01:03:27):

Hi, Nicholas Anastácio from National Journal and Hotline. I cover senate campaign, so sometimes I’m like out in the field. Last year I went to Pennsylvania to two different stops, but my team, it’s pretty small. Newsrooms are getting smaller. So in many ways we all have to take on a lot of the other responsibilities, whether that’s the graphics or the photos. I definitely didn’t have a photographer on me, so I just took the photos on my phone. What advice would you give for a journalist to get into photography to create industry level photos so that the words that the writing matches with the photography that they’re

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:04:04):

Taking? That’s a good question. And bravo to you, because that’s a lot of hustle. I mean, as you guys build up the need of what your responsibility is on the road, it’s really a lot of work. I think for me, I guess if I would use the latest iPhone, I always upgrade when you can. I would find a camera that, or an actual camera that you’re really comfortable with that’s more muscle memory so that you’re not trying to figure out what exposures and or put it on a setting that would be supportive of that, like aperture priority or shutter speed priority or something that you can control but not have to think a lot about because you’re doing five things at once anyway. Yeah, I think

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:04:51):

I would say use the raw feature on your phone. Oh

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:04:54):

Yeah, Joyce Love the raw feature.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:04:56):

The pros, I mean, I don’t know what Androids are like, but iPhone, you can shoot with raw, so you get a pretty good file size. And if you have, always try to get good lighting as long as you’ve got enough light

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:05:10):

Or add that little light to the top or something.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:05:13):

But I think going back to what your question was, photojournalism today, I mean you guys, I mean, from what I’m understanding, a lot of reporters are expected to come back sometimes with images. And I think it’s to your advantage to know how to compose, look at photographers work. You too, try to understand what captivates the visual audience. And my father, I remember, who is it? Quinn, she was married to Ben Bradley, she, Sally Quinn. She was narrating something about my father, and she said she remembered that my dad said to her, Mary Sally, if I get a good picture, you’re going to get better play. So to your advantage to have a good photo to accompany what you’re writing. So I would learn how to use a camera or like you said, really work that iPhone. A lot of times the videographers or the video news, the A, B, C, the cameraman will have the light. So use that light to your advantage. Don’t be photographing towards the light, have the light behind you so it’s lighting your subject. So just learn the basics on how to take a picture.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:06:34):

I’m happy to chat more if you

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:06:36):

Have more

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:06:36):

Questions offline.

Kevin Johnson/NPF (01:06:39):

Hey buddy. I think we have time for one more.

Grant Schwab | The Detroit News (01:06:43):

Hey, grant Schwab with the Detroit News. I know this is not the point of your presentation, so I’m almost sorry to ask this question, but as White House photographers, you have access to so much information behind the scenes that the public will never get, reporters might never get. Could you speak a little bit to what you need to sign or NDAs? What do they put a lid on and what you can and cannot communicate based on your time back there?

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:07:12):

Oh, for sure. Well, I had to sign away my first born and my three cats, so that was a little tough for me. And then, no, I think, well, you go through a background check to understand, so you’re already at a security clearance level that you should take seriously, because then if you lose that, then you’re out of a job and then that goes on your record really that you’ve lost your security clearance. So for future jobs, especially in this area, they’ll want to know why. So security clearance is pretty big. You do sign an NDA, I don’t know though. Council’s office has you sign NDAs and stuff.

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:07:52):

I don’t even know. But all I know is that is what, going back to what Shay said is trust and professionalism. It’s not in anyone’s best interest to, I mean, honestly, I don’t even hear, I mean, I remember you could ask me five minutes later and I’d be like, I was looking at my

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:08:11):

Camera. Yeah, I think that’s a great point. A lot of the times you’re hearing sounds of words, but you’re not really comprehending. I think as well. For me, I didn’t quite understand what was going on in the news world. And this is no joke, it’s so embarrassing, but I’ll admit it, don’t tell anybody. But I didn’t really understand what was going on in the world during the presidency because I had zero time to watch the news and understand the background stories of what was happening. I took that time after we left the administration to go back and learn what was going on. Oh, this is what Russiagate was all about. Oh, okay. And I think that was kind of to my advantage because then I wasn’t able to project a personal feeling on it. I was there again to sort of walk into the room and make a photo based on the moment’s reaction. Joyce says, great photos from that series, but you don’t really, I didn’t do a lot of press then. I still don’t do a lot of press now because I, again, going back to the trust, you want your clients to trust you, that you’re not going to talk and tell the secrets that even just the little things behind the scenes. So yeah, it’s just personal discretion really. It’s also not

Joyce Boghosian/Photographer (01:09:24):

Our role.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:09:25):

It’s not our job. Absolutely. Great point. Yeah.

Kevin Johnson/NPF (01:09:28):

Well, I don’t know about you, but I can look at these images all day long.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:09:32):

I mean, this Pulitzer Prize right here, selfie. This was an iPhone by the way.

Kevin Johnson/NPF (01:09:37):

And what a great one to end on. And because you guys have been so generous with your time and your experience, and we can’t thank you enough for doing it.

Shealah Craighead/Photographer (01:09:46):

Thank you for having us, Kevin, and we appreciate you guys. Yeah, I was to say, there’s one last thing I wanted to bring up that I didn’t, and it was about ethics. And I learned in college as a photographer, don’t alter the photo. If you can’t do it in the dark room, don’t do it in Photoshop or don’t do it in light room or whatever it is that you’re editing in. And I briefly touched on digital photography at that time was coming out as transitioning film was out of it, and there was a story about a guy in Afghanistan who added people in and it blew up. And I’ll never forget that because that guy just kind of didn’t think about it, how it would play out in the news and ethics. And that’s the one thing that we really tried hard to maintain in the White House photo office was that ethics is so important in a photo as well because it represents not only the president, the administration, but it could be a bigger story.

(01:10:41):

And that kind of goes back to your question, grant, about the bigger story. You don’t want it to be a bigger story. I don’t want my personal life to be a bigger story in the news. And so we always kind of stood by that. And if you needed to alter a photo, say if there was something about the security on a notepad that was on the table for one of the security photos I had, you would alter it and then add in editor’s note image has been altered and explain how so that people, the transparency is really apparent. And that’s kind of working from the newspaper industry very early on in press. That’s always been really hardcore instilled in us. So go forth and conquer. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you, Kevin.

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