Kelley Carter Transcript — Oct. 6, 2025
Rachel Jones/NPF (00:00):
Journalists of color who cover arts and culture have a prime opportunity for leaning into lived experience. Acknowledging the contributions of black and brown creators is important and the entire community benefits from a more complete perspective. During our first session, we’ll hear from Kelley L. Carter, senior Entertainment reporter for Good Morning America and host of another act at ESPN’s Landscape. Kelley’s career began in her hometown at the Detroit Free Press, where she worked as a music critic, multimedia entertainment reporter, and an entertainment columnist. For nearly nine years since then, Kelley has appeared on hundreds of red carpets and interviewed hundreds of showbiz and music industry legends. She’s also an established producer whose latest project is the Netflix series, Memphis to the Mountain, which we’ll talk about during this session. Kelley, thank you so much for joining the Widening the Pipeline family.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (01:06):
Thanks for having me. Anytime.
Rachel Jones/NPF (01:09):
So we have come a long way since Detroit and the free press. You would agree?
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (01:17):
I would agree with that. Yeah. A lot of things have happened in that time, but yet miraculously, I’m still only 21 years old
Rachel Jones/NPF (01:25):
Girl and I’m 19, so I don’t know how that happened. So I thought we would start the lived experience conversation going by having you tell us why and how you got into journalism and why you wanted to be a journalist.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (01:43):
Yeah, I mean, what’s interesting is I think why I wanted to be a journalist is you a very familiar story. I think for a lot of people who also are journalists too. I wanted to write and I was a great writer as a kid. My mom is English professor and my dad was a coach, but also taught sciences and at a collegiate level. And I don’t know, I mean, I guess I just gravitated towards writing and love to tell stories. And I think what was happening is in school, as we started doing group projects, all the kids wanted to be in my team cause they knew I would do all the work if there was a writing kind of thing. And I don’t know, I guess that was probably on my first validation that I had a little bit of skill at this writing thing.
(02:33):
And in fifth grade, which I assume is the age where they kind of start pipelining what you are and who you are, at least that was the first year that I remember career days being discussed and talking about who you wanted to be when you grew up being an active part of my academic, I guess experience as fifth grader. And I had a teacher named Mrs. Hale who I told her that I wanted to be a writer because I didn’t have the language for being a journalist. I was nine, turning 10 in fifth grade, and she said, you should be a journalist. And I was like, what’s that? And she told me what that was. And obviously my parents, well, maybe not, obviously my parents were newspaper subscribers, so I knew what a newspaper was and the function that it played in our household. And I was like, alright, cool.
(03:29):
I want to be a journalist. And she put me on school yearbook because we didn’t have a newspaper. And I always like to say that was my first journalism job and truly the rest is history. By the time I got into sixth grade, I worked for my middle school newspaper. My first job was as a film critic at my sixth grade newspaper, which I guess was some incredible foreshadowing about what I would ultimately do. And when I got into high school, I was doing everything. I had all different types of activities during the lunch hour and then after school. And one of the activities that I loved that I was doing were the school plays forensics, which is forensics and the acting discipline, not forensics in the CSI discipline. And it was a competitive acting thing that we did in the state of Michigan. And I loved acting and I loved the theater and that was something that my parents exposed me to very young.
(04:24):
And so I knew by the time I was applying for college, I went to Michigan State University that I wanted to study either journalism or theater. I’m not really sure what I was going to do with either one of those things. And remember my dad was like, theater, what’s the job going to be? How are you going to pay the light bill? And I was like, okay, well not theater, maybe I’ll studied journalism. And my dad was like, journalism. So what’s the job here? How are you going to pay the light bill? Because at the time they had this, I guess study that would come out every year. And for average, starting salaries of different disciplines. At the top of the list was chemical engineering with the starting average salary of 53,000 and some change. At the bottom of that very long list was journalism with this average starting salary that was below the poverty line, it was like 8,000, $9,000 a year.
(05:26):
And having no concept of what it actually meant to have a living or to pay a bill, I was like, journalism, that’s what I want to do. I want a career that’s going to make me happy. And so when I went off to college, I mean, I like to always, you’ll find this funny, Rachel, but I like to always say that I met my all knowing sophomore and everyone knows all knowing sophomore because of the person who they know everything. They know everything at 19 years old miraculously, they know everything because they did everything that you’re doing or about to do the year before. And so they want to be like your guidance through the process. And for me, my all knowing sophomore was very instrumental because she helped me get my first resume together, helped me become a better reporter in a lot of ways because she was teaching me about the business of journalism, which was something that I had not even spent any time thinking about.
(06:24):
I was more focused on inverted pyramids at the time that we would’ve met. But the one thing that she really pressed upon me is that journalism is a very experience-based discipline. And that started at that time we could do internships and actually work alongside real seasoned reporters and get the same kind of experience that they’re getting. And that was the only way that I was going to have a career. And that was the only way I was going to get a job after college was to have professional internships. And so she helped me get my first internship and put together my resume and again, poured into me all the things about everything in life, but in particular journalism. So I listened because she was 19 and I knew what she was talking about. And by the time after I got my first internship, she said, okay, that’s great.
(07:18):
Now we need to get this kind of internship at a writer’s paper. And so she was kind of teaching me about the difference in experiences that I was getting at newspapers. And after I did my writer’s paper internship, she said, okay, now we’ve got to focus on a specialty because everyone’s going to graduate with three or four internships and have this experience and they all want to be news reporters. They all want to cover education, they want to cover crime. Everyone kind of gets excited about the idea of chasing ambulances. And she said that her discipline was going to be sports because that was where her interest lied. And I was like, well, where does mine lie? And I was like, well, you know what? I did want to study theater before I study journalism, so maybe I could be a theater critic. Maybe that’s something I can do.
(08:07):
I do know a lot about theater. I love theater, but I knew I didn’t want to be an actor. I just wanted to be in that world of theater. And she was like, great, you’re going to be a future supporter. That’s what you’re going to tell people. And so that’s what I did. And then I did another internship at the Minneapolis Star Tribune, and that was my full-time covering entertainment and I loved it. I fell in love with it really quickly. My first job out of college was at the Detroit Free Press, and I started covering entertainment. And now I’m about to completely date myself and really let everyone know how elderly I am. But I started working at the free press at a time when, I mean a lot of newspapers look like this, to be honest with you. In their features departments, they were not diverse at all and they were very much heavy male departments.
(08:54):
And so for me, I was not only the youngest person on that staff, but I was the only woman in the entertainment staff, and I was the only woman and I was the only person of color. And so I had a very different experience than my colleagues. And this is super, super disrespectful. But what I used to say back then was that I would drive home listening to WJLB, the r and b hip hop station and hanging out with my friends. We all moved back home after college, blah, blah, blah. Whereas my colleagues, I would say they’re probably listening to NPR and going home and drinking warm milk, going to bed. It was so disrespectful. I’m probably older than them now. So disrespectful. So disrespectful. I’m going to call everybody up and apologize to them now.
Rachel Jones/NPF (09:44):
Please do. But
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (09:45):
I should, right?
Rachel Jones/NPF (09:46):
Starting with me,
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (09:46):
I listen, listen. I’m like it was all the guys. They just had a different life experience than I did. And I leaned into that pretty early because I was told, or I learned really, I guess when I was doing my internships that what was going to set me apart was figuring out what the holes were in coverage. And it’s honestly something that I tell people all the time who are starting out now, like, look for the holes because there always are holes. There’s always something that your newsroom is not covering. And
Rachel Jones/NPF (10:25):
Speaking of holes, Kelley, I have to interject here because you buried the lead. You didn’t tell people who that sophomore all-knowing sophomore
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (10:35):
Was. Yeah, my all-knowing sophomore, my best friend Jemele Hill, who is a rebel rouser and an incredible journalist and someone who still knows everything and tries to tell me what to do because she knows everything, but she does do everything. Yeah. And she
Rachel Jones/NPF (10:56):
From I met Drew Jemele.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (10:57):
Yes,
Rachel Jones/NPF (10:58):
I remember. Again, I had probably started heading towards my African journey at that time. And at one point you and I were emailing back and forth and you were talking about some of the challenges that you were having in the newsroom and decisions about what you were going to do. Talk about what having that kind of mentorship and support from Jamele meant to you at that early stage.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (11:27):
Well, here’s the thing that we also have to be very clear about it. I’m sure what she was really doing was regurgitating all the lessons that she had gotten from you because you were Jemele’s mentor. And so she was really just, it was a cliff notes for me. She was just passing on information that she had gotten from you because of course she didn’t know everything at 19 years old, but what she knew was her mentors were gifting her and she was passing that on to me. And I mean, it was invaluable because I would literally not be where I am right now, wouldn’t be anything where I am right now if it weren’t for that friendship and that relationship and that generosity in sharing that knowledge. What I definitely always like to say about Jamel is that she’s someone who would be uncomfortable if she walked into a room and had a seat at a table and she was the only person who looked like her at that table.
(12:28):
And that’s not something that she evolved into or learned as an adult. That was something that who she was as a teenager, because that’s why she did that with me. She was like, I see you and I want you to be sitting next to me, so let me give you all of this knowledge that I’ve gotten so that you can be sitting next to me. And that’s literally what happened. I’m not quite sitting next to her yet, but I at least get invited into similar rooms that she gets into because of her guidance and like I said, her generosity.
Rachel Jones/NPF (13:05):
I want you to go back to that early phase of your career and you’re the only woman, the only person of color, the youngest in the room. Talk a little bit about how that helps you build your perspective of leaning into lived experience and using that as your sort of calling card.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (13:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, the first kind of moment of realization that that’s what I really needed to be doing is like I said, when I was leaving work, I was listening to the r and b and hip hop station heading home and is obviously before satellite radio, listen to the commercials. And in Detroit, the theatrical experience was either off Broadway touring shows or they were other touring shows that would rent out theaters. They would rent out the Masonic Temple and they would be primarily these stories that were theater that was rooted in a gospel, like a black Christian experience. And they would sell out and they would make a lot of money because it’d be like the 12th week holdover, it’s Mama, I want to sing part eight starring. And then inevitably it would star some r and b star from the eighties or nineties or a sitcom star from that same time.
(14:39):
And it was just a magical formula that they would put together and people would come out and they would sell out these theaters night after night, holdover every week. And were really big business in Detroit. And so I wanted to look into that because I knew the way to get my bosses to pay attention to something that they probably had no knowledge of until I brought it to them was to talk about the money of it all. And when I reported out that they were clearing, in some cases a quarter million, half a million dollars a week doing these shows, my bosses were like, tell us more. And that became a centerpiece Sunday story, which as you know is the thing you want to do. You either want to be on one A or you want to have this centerpiece story, especially on a Sunday.
(15:28):
And they loved it. They loved the idea of me exploring what was called originally Chitlin Circuit Theater that evolved into this thing that it had become in the late nineties. And that got so much attention internally and also externally because a community that felt like they didn’t see themselves in their newspaper, all of a sudden were seeing themselves in their newspaper. Because after that and something was sparked. And I started looking for stories like that because I saw the reception internally and I definitely saw the reception externally. And that’s really how I started to build out my entertainment reporting career in Detroit.
Rachel Jones/NPF (16:16):
One of the things that I think us regular folks always wonder about is how you are able to sustain the energy and the connection or vibrancy of talking to so many famous people. So before we show your real, I want to take us up to the point where you actually asked the question of Tom Hanks, but tell me what was it like early on when you’re assigned to go talk to Jay-Z or whatever? How did you manage that?
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (16:50):
Well, so the thing about working Detroit was so foundational for my career in so many ways. I mean, it was my hometown, so it was great that my family had a better understanding about what I studied in college and what I wanted to do with my career. But because it has the entertainment capital that it had, even though Motown had left a long time ago, everyone still came through Detroit. It was just a hot market for pretty much any sector of entertainment. So with film, everyone came and did what they call back then satellite tours. Everyone came through Detroit because also there was this multiplex that was built in Detroit. It was a star multiplex and it was one of the first multiplexes in the country, but it also happened to be at that time, the highest grossing theater, movie theater in the country. They made a lot of money there. And so that meant that everybody who had a film came through Detroit. Everyone who went on tour as a musician came through Detroit. And so that meant there was a lot of opportunity for me to interview people and to start building and establishing relationships with people. And I didn’t know that I was doing this back then. But something that I kind of proudly talk about now that I feel is very real with my journey as an entertainment journalist is that I like to find people right before they blew really big.
(18:36):
It wasn’t even that I had an eye for like, oh my God, this person’s going to be the next huge superstar. I just relied on the culture to dictate who was going to be the next big thing. But I also had a little bit of, maybe I did know a little bit of what the components were there to make this person prime to be the next big star. And I would try and interview them early in their career, and then I would go back to them every time there was this monumental moment in their careers because I wanted to track them and I wanted them, I suppose, to remember me and remember me on their journey. And so that means talking to Beyonce of Destiny’s Child when no one else was talking with Beyonce of Destiny’s Child and then checking in and then checking in when she did her first solo single that no one remembers, and then checking in when she does her first album that people absolutely remember and then checking in at this point and at that point.
(19:42):
And so that was the thing that I made part of who I was as a reporter. And what’s great now is that when I sit down with people that I would’ve met a long time ago, they remember that. And that’s a lot of times why I get the interviews that I get. But it also makes the interviews really more special because that person is aware that I’m fully aware of their journey in this life, and I’ve been there to kind of really document the highs and sometimes the lows back to the highs again about that. So that’s been, like I said, really foundational to who I am as a journalist.
Rachel Jones/NPF (20:24):
You have described something that I often tell people as one of my personal superpowers as a journalist, and that is making people feel like they are seen and heard and really being authentic in that way so that they trust you. And so I thought this would be a good moment to show your real part, your reel that you shared with me, just to give the journalists a scope of your impact. So Sid, you’ve got it queued up. Let’s take a look at a couple of minutes of Kelley’s show reel.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (21:01):
I’m going to apologize for obnoxious. It is, but hovering from his bachelorette heartbreak. Kelley, good
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Morning to you.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (21:07):
Good morning. Good morning. Kelley Carter sat down with three time Grammy nominee offset. Good morning to you, Kelley. Good morning, Robin.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Kelley Carter sat down with Grammy nominated rapper gorilla. Good morning, Kelley.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (21:22):
Good morning, George. You women have been around in hip hop since the dawn of the genre, but now we’re in this incredible rap girl renaissance, and I sat down recently with Hip hop’s next superstar gorilla. Let’s take a look. ABC’s Kelley Carter sits down with her bestie Jamel Hill to talk about their friendship, fun and fond memories made along the way. What do you think the key is to our friendship? I do think honesty, loyalty, those two things come to mind, and I think we do give each other a lot of grace. You are a director of movies, but you are up for an academy award for songwriting. Tell me about that, and what does that feel like for you in this moment, act past that? I mean, and I think there was some depth there that we don’t normally get to see. I’m going to be vulnerable in this moment on this song and talk about these things. Is that challenging for you? How do you think this song resonated with fans the way that it has?
Gabriella Nuñez | NBC Atlanta 11Alive News (22:21):
A lot of us, we go through the same stuff, and that’s what I represent really because I’ve been in toxic situations.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (22:27):
If you watch this most recent finale of The Bachelorette, which gave us all an epic Hollywood ending, surely you’re a believer in fairytales. Good morning, Rebecca. On Thursday morning, I sat down with the three Lizzo accusers and their attorney, and they gave more information about what they say was a hostile work environment while on tour with the Pop star. What was the moment where you realized that the work that you guys were doing was being accepted into this community? Shivers through my body. I know I was not alone.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Shivers are through my body too. When I think about that.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (23:01):
Illa is gorilla is Day Girl, that girl. Okay. I’ve been waiting my whole career to interview you, Tom Hanks. And I think one of the reasons why is because you’re an actor who’s so respected across genres, genders, and races. Your work, quite frankly, has never shied away from tackling some of the uglier sides of American history with regard to race and even sexual orientation. Why is it that you think those types of roles find their way to you, and why is it that you look to bring those projects to life? Yeah, he said first off, Spielberg is making movies now for 51 years, which means that he been fully influenced.
Rachel Jones/NPF (23:39):
So I wanted to stop it at that point with Tom Hanks. In our prep conversation, you really offered me an extraordinary window into how using lived experience and using preparation for an interview of course is very important. But you were able to sort of mind things from that conversation with Tom Hanks that was based on the fact that you sort of knew where he was coming from, but you brought your own sensibility into that. Tell us about why that interview is probably one of your most memorable.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (24:21):
Yeah, so I mean, I was in Cannes the year that the Elvis film premiered, and I went and saw really having, I guess all of the biases that I would’ve had growing up about Elvis Presley and kind of who he was in the music world, and the cultural appropriation, kind of all the things that I think somebody black, his parents who were teenagers in the sixties and seventies would’ve thought, would’ve thought. And so anyway, when I watched the film, I was like, all right, I want to do something on this. But there was this one actor who portrayed BB King. He was probably only in a couple of scenes, and I didn’t want to interview the black actor who played BB King, who was such an insignificant part of this movie, and put all of the kind of emotional weight on him to talk about race and racism and music and American history at that time that this film takes place.
(25:36):
And I was like, you know what? The reason why this film was made was because of Tom Hanks. And when I thought about the totality of his career, I thought about some of his bigger projects like the Philadelphia and things like that. He really, and even Fors Gump, he really kind of taps into the fabric of American history in a lot of ways and tackles things that at times are very unpretty to deal with. And so I wanted to talk with him about that, and I was blown away because I didn’t expect to get all of the things that I got from Tom and that interview. But he really went on talking about Black Wall Street and what happened there and how he was disappointed in the whitewashing of American history and that he grew up in Oakland. He was bused in and his experiences moving through the world as a white man, but a white man who grew up in a black environment and his social consciousness because of that.
(26:36):
And it was great. It was so great that so many people have ripped and stolen this interview and removed me from it. But to put out his words, which is okay, because I know who did the interview, and when I tell you tens of millions of people have keep reposting parts of this interview. But it was such a great interview, and I really loved talking with Tom Hanks about that because he’s someone who gets interviewed by people all the time. And I think for me, the challenge is always what can I get them to talk about and what conversation can we have that they’re not having with anyone else? And I feel like I absolutely nailed it with him. And after that interview, how that interview ends, it’s him saying, so we’re just not talking about the fun stuff and entertainment. We’re having these layered, deep conversations.
(27:30):
And he really enjoyed it. His team hit me up and they were like, Tom really liked that conversation and wants to meet with you and talk some more. And I mean, I’ve had very similar experiences with Angelina Jolie, same thing. She was like, wait, I care about the way that you view the world, and I have questions for you too. And it was just great because it just makes for a better interview and a better conversation to get someone, again, like Tom Hanks, like Angelina Jolie who get interviewed millions of times to say something impactful that also they’ve never said before.
Rachel Jones/NPF (28:06):
I want to give as much time as possible to the fellows to have them ask questions. So I’m going to ask you to start raising those Zoom hands if you do have a question for Kelley. But before I get to you, I wanted to talk about this pivot you’ve made towards producing. You’ve been doing that for quite some time, I think. Wasn’t your first producer project related to Aretha Franklin and telling her story?
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (28:35):
Oh yeah. I guess that was, yeah. Yes, I won a couple Emmys for that. Yes, I was, it’s funny when you say that. I don’t think about that, but that actually started, I won that at the Detroit Free Press. I was think the first newspaper reporter to win an Emmy for broadband project in that really kind of changed the game, I think for a lot of people because that was, excuse me, at the time when newspapers were trying to figure out how to, not only what their relevancy was in the digital landscape and footprint, but also how to utilize the multimedia of it all, not just putting words and pictures on websites. And so I had a photographer that I worked with a lot, and I was like, Hey, I have an idea. Let’s do a documentary on Aretha Franklin on the cover of this song, respect that was about to turn, I think 40 years old at that time.
(29:32):
And my history and my knowledge, my lived experience, I suppose, again, from my mom in particular, I knew the relevancy of that song that it was more than just an anthemic, iconic pop song. It was really a surreal, surreal call for gender rights movements with women, but it also was like a battle cry in the civil rights movement too. And so I wanted to put all of that in this documentary. And so that’s really where I started, I suppose, producing. But then I picked it back up, I feel like in a bigger way, Jamel and I formulated a production company and we started selling projects and taking projects that we’re working on a couple of things right now too. But then I also do projects on my own as she does projects on her own too. And I’ve done a scripted project, I’ve done some docuseries, and I have a new docuseries that’s currently on Hulu that is very special to me because my husband is from South Memphis and South Memphis is one of those neighborhoods where not a lot of people make it out.
(30:48):
And my husband is one of them, and I really knew the importance of that area when we went back one time and we stopped by his old barber, and I was listening to his barber talk and he had kind of tears well up in his eyes, and when he was like always knew, pointed at my husband, I always knew you were going to get out. I knew you were going to be the one. And so I really had that perspective of what it meant to grow up in South Memphis and what it meant to leave South Memphis. And so the project that came to me, it wasn’t one that I found it came to me, but I felt like it was all very serendipitous, of course, is about this. These people built a rock climbing gym in south Memphis, in a place that has a food desert in a place where I just told you, you may not make it out alive.
(31:45):
And they taught these young men and women how to climb mountains, and they ultimately climbed Mount Africa. A lot of them had never been on a plane, had never traveled outside of the city limits of Memphis themselves. And then to go to Africa and camp out and climb a mountain alongside these world champion mountain climbers. And it’s inspirational and beautiful, and it really kind of tells you about the history of that neighborhood and the community, but also gives you this very inspirational story about what it takes to do something like this. So I love set it up
Rachel Jones/NPF (32:29):
Brilliantly. Did. Okay. In fact, interestingly enough, the person who started the rock climbing facility was a Hollywood director himself. Like Tom, tell us a little bit about
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (32:42):
Him. Yeah, yeah. Excuse me. The guy who started it, his family has been very much in service for generations, actually. They’re the ones who fundraise for St. Jude’s Hospital. His brother is the lead fundraiser. They bring in hundreds of millions of dollars for St. Jude, and he’s directed films like Liar, liar, and he really came to Memphis to visit his brother and stay there for a little bit because sometimes you do need to depart from Hollywood because it can be a lot. And he started teaching a class at an HBCU located in South Memphis, and he really started having an understanding about the neighborhood and community and decided he loved rock climbing, decided to build this thing and see what it was. And we made this documentary together.
Rachel Jones/NPF (33:45):
Amazing. Get ready folks for some questions, but for right now, we’re going to take a look at the trailer for Memphis to the mountain. So say it. Can you cue that up for us?
Chloe K. Li | Al Jazeera English (33:57):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
None of us have never done anything like this. We come from the hood.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (34:04):
South Memphis is a black working class neighborhood,
Speaker 5 (34:08):
But Memphis is not mountains and hills is mys Edward.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
We started a climbing gym to bring a safe place for youth. Memphis Rocks is something this community and city needs. Later this year, rocks has taken its biggest climbing trip ever. Mount Kenya. It’ll be the biggest, hardest climb any of us has ever attempted. It’s easy to say that all of us going to make it to the top of Mount Kenya. It’s going to be hard to do it if we are going up a mountain together as a team. You don’t want to see nobody give up. 16,000 feet is insane. Bill Henderson is one of the people I look up to the most. You wanted a challenge. We all have that common goal,
Speaker 3 (34:54):
The Memphis Rocks crew, they’re coming from a tough place. They’re tough people, but many of them have never claimed outdoors. Hey, bro, we from South Memphis, the second step of this journey, we’re here to learn from Mr. Free solo himself. Alex Honnold. When did you start crying, Mike? Six months ago. Alex Honnold is one of the greatest athletes I know.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
I am the black Alex hon Mondor. I like Blo. Your steaks could not be higher for these. Eat right here. I’m shaking
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Like a stripper called a helicopter. I’ve never experienced anything like the Memphis Rocks crew. Either you succeed or you fail. And as a climber, you fail all the time. That’s all ever do. People are starting to realize how hard it’s going to be. Oh, Hell no, there’s no turning back.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Not everyone’s going to be able to make it up ready for emergency. See, lost cons. This is so hard, but y’all make it so easy. Memphis, Memphis. Memphis.
Rachel Jones/NPF (36:03):
Very impressive.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (36:05):
I always get a little emotional watching that trailer because I won’t give it completely away, but while we were in the final phases of editing, one of the people in the docuseries was murdered and it was gut wrenching. But yeah, so hopefully you guys will watch it. That didn’t scare you off from watching it.
Rachel Jones/NPF (36:25):
Absolutely. So are there any questions? I don’t see any Zoom hands yet, but Oh, there’s Gabby. Go ahead and introduce yourself and ask your question. Gabby.
Gabriella Nuñez | NBC Atlanta 11Alive News (36:42):
Hi Kelley. My name is Gabriela Nunez. I’m a special projects producer at 11 and Live News, so the NBC station in Atlanta. And I was just wondering, working in broadcast news, and I think journalism overall, there’s been a real push to turn more content, be more multi-platform, and it’s been really a struggle to do smart nuanced culture reporting, which I would argue beyond features. I think you really bring a sense of culture into all facets. Loved your real by the way. So what advice would you have as we’re navigating this changing industry to make sure those stories or those features still find a place in our ever-changing landscape?
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (37:22):
I mean, here’s the thing. I think that it’s so easy to be dismissive of cultural reporting, the fluffy stuff as the light stuff, but you look at what’s happening right now, nationally, politically, and what the landscape is like. And for me, it reminds me of a time that I did not live through because I was not born then. But when I think about, I always tell people when I talk about my hometown Detroit, I’m always like, you have to talk about Motown. I’m like, it’s the music that changed the world, and I’m always waiting for somebody to be like, how? If they don’t know somehow so that I can really give them this history lesson. I think about how incredible it must’ve been to be a reporter during that time where you have the music that is literally soundtracking the world, but you have artists who can’t play an integrated theaters because of the way that America is constructed or legislated at that time.
(38:17):
And so you look and you see some of the headlines right now that are happening, and then the people who are uniquely positioned to have a voice about these things in a way that no one else is, would be people in this world of arts and culture and entertainment. It’s going to show up in film and TV shows that they do. It’s going to show up in the books that they write, it’s going to show up in the marshes that they speak at and lead. It’s going to show up in the organizations that they choose to align themselves with. So in that sense, I think it’s going to be pretty easy to do more nuanced and deeper and layered reports and conversations and stories in this world of cultural reporting, entertainment reporting. I just thoroughly believe that. I mean, it happens in every interview that I do and every story that I tell.
(39:13):
I’m not just talking about Taylor Swift’s new album. I’m talking about young women in their mid thirties, and I’m talking about being dependent or sexual evolution. I’m always talking about something that’s far deeper than whatever it is on the surface of it. And I feel like I shouldn’t be one of few people doing that, and I don’t think that I will be. I naturally, everyone is going to have to report in this very same way because that’s just where we are right now. You know what I mean? Especially when you think of it this way. We’re living in a space where just a few weeks ago, you saw people losing their jobs for things that they were saying on social media. And I’m not even talking about high profile people. I’m talking about just everyday folks losing their jobs. So we’re living in a world where people are afraid to speak out about something that they feel is unjust, unjust, or maybe just that they don’t agree with it, but the people who will very comfortably be able to do that will be these people with amplified platforms in this world of culture, arts, entertainment.
(40:38):
And I think that that’s where a lot of those stories are going to start to come from for the next few years. Anyway, and I hope that answered your question. I hope I did. Okay, thank you.
Rachel Jones/NPF (40:51):
Let’s go to Tamia.
Tamia Fowlkes | Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (40:54):
Hi Kelley. My name is Tamia Fowlkes. I’m a reporter at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. I am not an arts and culture.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (41:00):
Thank you. I wanted to work there so badly.
Tamia Fowlkes | Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (41:02):
It’s a great paper. I’m not an arts and culture reporter. I’m an investigative reporter, but I do a handful of arts and culture features throughout the year because it’s one of my passions. And I was curious if you could share a little bit about maybe what advice you have for pitching stories to maybe bigger artists. Our paper doesn’t do a huge amount of features about musical artists that come into the city, or even if we have a player show in the area, I noticed that we don’t necessarily capitalize on doing that on social media or in print all the time. I’m curious if you could share insight on maybe what we could say to PR managers who might not be as willing to give us interviews or space to have those conversations with an
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (41:44):
Artist. Yeah. Well, okay. So first off, I would say, okay, now is the time to start building relationships with people’s personal publicists. What was happening, and I don’t know if this is still true now, but what was happening when I was working in Detroit in local media is there will be intermediaries. So there’d be the PR manager for Fox Theater would say, Hey, Laurn Hill is coming to have a concert here. There may be some interviews available if you want. So that would be my contact, I guess, essentially. But I started learning pretty quickly that I needed to develop a relationship with personal publicists, not even label publicists, not even film studio publicists, but the people that they actually put on retainer. You can figure out who those people are. You probably already know this. IMDB Pro will let you know who represents everyone and start small and work your way up.
(42:52):
For me, I think when I said I didn’t set out to necessarily start trying to break people and just predict that they were going to have these really amazing careers, it really was because publicists, personal publicists, and in some cases, I suppose label, if I’m thinking about music too, label publicists were trying to break their smaller artists that they wanted to have bigger careers or that they thought maybe could have bigger careers. And so I would do solids. I’d be like, sure, I’ll do a story on this person because I really want to do a story on Jay-Z, but I’ll do a story on this other person on this label. And the only my white, what do we call this? My white whale. My white whale. I have one in my white whale that I turned down an interview to break Rihanna because they were begging.
(43:47):
They were like, oh, Jay-Z thinks she’s going to be big. And I was like, I don’t have the time, guys. I don’t have the time to talk to Rihanna. I totally regret that because everything else that I was doing, I was saying yes to the Rihanna interviews, but I didn’t at that time, but I was doing that and that’s how I was getting the Jay-Z interviews. I’d be like, okay, I’ll interview this other artist that you have that it makes sense for our community to do this story. But I want this interview. This is the interview that I ultimately want. And it’s so funny because I have a publicist out here that I know that first met when I was in Detroit, and when I eventually worked for USA today out here in la, which is my last newspaper job, he had said to me at one point, he was like, man, I’m so glad that I was nice to you when I was in Detroit, because now all these publicists were clamoring for you to talk to them, talk to you about their clients, and now I’m genuine because I was hooking you up, blah, blah, blah.
(44:57):
And vice versa, because we met, because the Super Bowl was in Detroit that year, and one of his clients had a talk show, and he wanted to do four days in Detroit, and they reached out to me because they just needed some help establishing things, figuring out how to tap into the local color of it all. And we connected, had a great time. And two weeks ago, I had texted him, we talk, not all the time, but we check in pretty regularly. But I texted him two weeks ago to see how he was doing when that clients had their show suspended recently on the network that I work for. And that is why I always push the idea of developing relationships with personals because people very rarely in this industry change personals. If they do, it’s because a me too moment has happened. It is very unusual for, that’s why Jimmy Kimmo still has the same publicist that he had 20 years ago right now, I think that Super Bowl was in 2006 that he is right now. And so you never know where you’re going to be or where they’re going to be. And I think that they have that awareness too. So anyway, develop a relationship with a personal publicist, check in when you don’t want anything, ask them who they have coming into town. Look, because you have the schedule, the calendar so far in advance and just try and keep pushing to make that happen. But take it out of the local publicist and try to go to their personal publicist
Tamia Fowlkes | Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (46:37):
Answer question. Yes, definitely.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (46:38):
Okay,
Rachel Jones/NPF (46:40):
I’m going to put one of our fellows on the spot. Chloe, are you there?
Chloe K. Li | Al Jazeera English (46:49):
Yep, I’m here.
Rachel Jones/NPF (46:51):
I wanted to connect you to this conversation because of the message that you sent me a while back, which was about something that, an outreach that you got from a film producer or someone in that realm. I think it’s important for us as journalists to follow up on any opportunities that we have to have added value to our work. And so could you tell us a little bit about what that was, and do you have any questions for Kelley
Chloe K. Li | Al Jazeera English (47:25):
About it? Yeah, I can briefly explain it. I don’t want to take up too much time from, but it was basically, I wrote an article outside of my regular day job as part of this fellowship I had last year about my family’s history in the gangs of New York City, Chinatown. My parents were very involved in that, and a film producer who had worked on Joy Luck Club and some of these bigger Asian films reached out. And at first I was like, this is a scam. There’s no way
Rachel Jones/NPF (47:57):
I’m Joy. Can you turn your camera on?
Chloe K. Li | Al Jazeera English (47:59):
Oh, yeah, sorry, one second. There you go. Hello. Yeah, I was like, this is definitely a scam. This is not a real thing. And then I was like, I should just meet with her just in case it is real. And I met with her and she’s real, and basically she wanted to option my article to shop it around to different production companies, potentially start the process of making a film to the story I told of my family. And there hasn’t been much progress just because I really have no experience on anything like this. I have nothing, I know nothing about the entertainment industry, about film. And also no one I know has ever had their article optioned. I’ve heard of books being optioned or a screenplay. But anyway, so yeah, I don’t know what exactly the question is. I guess I’ve been really struggling on fine tuning the details of a proposal to her about what I would want and stuff like that.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (49:12):
Yeah, I mean, the first thing I would always suggest doing in that instance is finding a really good lawyer,
(49:19):
And maybe it’s a friend, but because what you’re talking about is ip, you’re talking about intellectual property, and that is of value. You look at, even in the Hollywood Sense, one of the biggest stories this year was about centers, Ryan Kugler’s film that came out in April. And the story was that because it’s very true, I spend a lot of time thinking about this. I don’t think that people outside of this industry spend a lot of time thinking about this, but there really is nothing original in Hollywood. Everything for the most part is recycled. It’s a remake or it comes from something that exists out there in the world. Why his peace centers became such a big deal is it’s the first studio film that was created that’s original. There’s no ip, there was no article that was optioned. There was nothing like that. So I say all that to say is that this happens all the time.
(50:16):
And what you want to do when someone approaches you is you want to get a lawyer, but you also want to make sure that you always have some stake in it too. And that usually is in the form of a producer credit. A lawyer will be able to help you to define what I’m about to say next to you better. But it’s all about the points that you want to negotiate. So essentially, you’re negotiating a backend deal. If you sell a project and it makes some money, you want to get something on the backend. If you didn’t get it on the front end, you want to make sure that you’re taken care throughout entirety of the project. So anyway, get a lawyer, they’ll walk you through that, they’ll help you through that. And I mean, I’m happy to suggest I have a friend of mine out here who is an entertainment attorney, who is great, who would probably be able to figure that part out for you and walk you through that. I can shoot his information to Rachel after the conversation, shoot his email. Yeah.
Rachel Jones/NPF (51:28):
Thank you so much. I’m going to need half a point, okay. For hooking you up with this. You’ll be okay. I think I saw one more hand. Danny, did you still want to ask a question?
Daniela Doncel | Connecticut Public (51:42):
Yeah, thank you. Hi, my name is Daniela. I’m with Connecticut Public Radio. I’m the Latino communities reporter, and a lot of what I do is cover arts and culture. And I’m curious because of lot of what we do at Connecticut, public is obviously centered around Connecticut, so we do a lot of work to make sure that we bring national stories to that local lens. But in terms of arts and culture, I’m very interested in the national side of things in terms of arts and culture, especially film industry and that kind of thing. But I don’t really know the best way, if you have any ideas or thoughts or advice in terms of finding that local connection in terms of a creative way, if that makes any sense.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (52:25):
No, it totally makes sense. It’s so funny because I used to always say that there’s always a Detroit connection with every story, and that was my goal, is to always figure it out. If someone was like, what? And I’m so sorry, I forgot, Tamia, is that okay? When you were saying earlier that a lot of artists come into Milwaukee, excuse me, and you want to figure it out. For me, it was the same thing with Detroit. So I was always like, there’s always a Detroit connection. I just need to figure out how to get into this story. And so I don’t know what the best advice is, but I feel like it doesn’t take much to figure out like a connection. For me. It’s always been about asking that one random question that maybe feels unexpected for someone, because at the end of the day, what you want to do is just make sure that your work is connecting with your local audience.
(53:37):
Then you have to ask local questions. You know what I mean? And where’d you go? When you were in Connecticut, what have you found that’s inspired you here? Did your uncle live here? Did you spend your summers here? There’s always something somewhere. I was so trained into finding the Detroit connection and everything that I still, when I’m not looking for it, find the Detroit connection. You know what I mean? It was just for me, I guess that’s what it was, just training my brain to figure out how to find that. And again, I’m so sorry that I’m not being more helpful in answering this question, but that’s what did it for me. So I don’t know if that’s something that you can take and figure out how to make it work for. Okay.
Daniela Doncel | Connecticut Public (54:21):
Yeah. No, that’s so helpful. Thank you.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (54:23):
Okay, awesome. Thank you.
Rachel Jones/NPF (54:25):
We unfortunately have reached sort of the end of our hour. This has been an incredible conversation and opportunity to explore entertainment, arts and culture reporting. I want to take my moderator’s prerogative and ask you the last question, which is, in this moment in time in media history, journalism, global history, one of the things I struggle with most is as a black woman moving in the circles that I move in with the antiquity and anti DEI mood going through the world right now, using my voice and being able to bring that lived experience into space, into whatever space I’m in. And I wanted to ask you to sort of send us off with a message of how you carry your energy, who you are, your view of the world into every interaction that you have.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (55:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think the only reason that I even have the modicum of success that I have right now is because authenticity is what I’ve been using as a guiding light, just remaining authentic to who I am as a person. And I’m many things, but I mean for me, I am a black woman who is from the Midwest, whose father is from the Southeast and who has a very up from slavery, familial history. And that’s just all of that lives in me, regardless of the spaces that I’m in, the rooms that I’m in. And so when I’m interviewing people, somehow all of that is carried through. And even questions that I ask or how I answer questions, I do a lot of commentating too. That’s just my experience. That’s my true, very lived, very authentic experience, and I can’t erase that from myself. So I lean into it, and I think that people really respect it, especially in a space where consumers of media are dissecting who we are and what we do and how we do it.
(56:42):
I think that one thing that we were always taught about in J School, all of us were taught the idea of non-biased reporting. And the truth of the matter is, and I had a boss tell me this early on, is that there’s no such thing as unbiased reporting if we’re being very honest, because we all have a frame of reference. We all have a very lived experience that we’re coming to the table with. And so to be unbiased in the way that we’re taught to be unbiased in J School means that you don’t, you’re taking your brain out of mind. Don’t do that. I think the better thing is to teach upcoming journalists how to recognize those biases when they’re reporting so that you can tell a fuller and complete story that is accurate portrayal of what it is you are there to cover, but also having the knowledge of what you bring to the story is what adds that color and flavor to it. So I would really encourage everyone to make sure that you’re doing that too as you go out and report stories.
Rachel Jones/NPF (57:47):
Kelley L. Carter, good Morning, America and ESPN’s, we are so grateful to you for sharing your superpower with us and helping us find our own. So thank you for joining the Widening the Pipeline family.
Kelley Carter/ESPN & ABC (58:03):
Of course. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Anytime.
